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Doing a crawl space encapsulation job. Customer wants spray foam on the rim joists plus I am doing a full floor system with poly vapor barrier.
Question: If I am spraying 2 inch closed cell on the rim joists, do I still need to extend the poly barrier up the foundation wall to the joists, or does the foam take the place of the vapor control at that location?
Climate zone 5 here (Indiana). IRC 2021 applies.
My understanding: closed cell foam at 2 inch IS a Class II vapor retarder, so the poly is not technically needed at the rim joist location. But I want to make sure there is no air leakage path between the poly on the floor and where the foam starts on the rim.
Also: should I foam the sill plate area before the rim joist, or foam both together?
Seeing more and more about HFO-based closed cell foams (Lapolla 4G HFO, BASF Walltite ECO, etc.). My distributor is pushing them hard as the future of closed cell.
Currently running standard HFC-245fa closed cell and it works great. The HFO upgrade would be about 15-20% higher material cost per board foot.
Arguments for HFO:
– Lower Global Warming Potential (GWP) – 1 vs 700+ for HFC
– Required by some green building specs (LEED, etc.)
– Some states may phase out HFC products
Arguments against:
– Higher cost passed to customers = harder to win bids
– Some early reports of slightly lower yield
– Limited long-term performance data
Anyone making this switch? Is the green premium actually translating to more business or just more cost?
I have been in the spray foam business for 7 years now, started solo and now run a crew of 4. Wanted to share what I wish someone had told me when I started.
Equipment: Do not cheap out on the machine. Buy a Graco or Gusmer. Factor in 3-5k per year for maintenance and repairs no matter what.
Chemical: Build a relationship with ONE distributor. The pricing deals are worth it. Store drums properly – temperature swings ruin material.
Business: Get spray foam specific liability insurance from Day 1. Regular contractor insurance often does not cover SPF claims. Require a signed contract on every job.
The hardest lesson: Price for profitability, not to win bids. I lost money for 18 months trying to compete on price with cheap operators. Once I raised prices 25 percent, I got better customers and actually made money.
Happy to answer questions for anyone starting out.
Having a nightmare job here. Installed 2 inch closed cell on the interior of OSB wall sheathing about 3 weeks ago. Customer called saying the foam is peeling away from the OSB in some spots.
Details:
– Product: Lapolla 4G HFO
– Temps during install: 55F substrate, 60F ambient
– Substrate was dry (moisture meter under 12%)
– No primer used
– Yield looked normal, cells looked good
The OSB was treated/pressure treated – could that be the issue? Lapolla tech line thinks it might be the preservative treatment reacting with the foam. Anyone dealt with delamination on treated OSB before?
Making a purchasing decision between the H-25 and H-40 for my company. We do about 60% residential and 40% light commercial (metal buildings, warehouses, small office buildouts).
My breakdown:
– H-25: lower operating cost, 2.5 lb/min output
– H-40: 4 lb/min output, better for commercial, but $8k more upfront
The rep is telling me the H-40 will pay for itself in commercial jobs. I am skeptical. Anyone running both or switched from one to the other?
Also interested in comparing heat-up times and reliability records. We are in Minnesota so cold start times matter a lot.
I’m getting calls from a customer who had open cell spray foam installed in their attic about 6 months ago. They’re claiming they can still smell a chemical odor.
The job was done with Icynene Classic (water-blown open cell), standard application. Temps were around 65F during install.
Questions:
1. Is 6-month off-gassing normal for open cell?
2. Could this be a moisture problem rather than off-gassing?
3. Has anyone had liability issues from post-install smell complaints?
The customer is threatening a BBB complaint. Not sure if I should offer remediation or stand firm.
Hey guys – I’ve been doing this solo for about 3 years now and I’m finally ready to upgrade my rig. Right now I’m running an older Graco E-30i out of a 20-ft enclosed trailer.
Looking at possibly moving to a skid unit in a van or pickup bed. Anyone running a solo operation with a truck-mounted setup?
Main concerns:
– Hose management working alone
– Generator size (currently running a 15kW)
– Drum placement and heating
– Staying under 26k GVW for CDL purposes
Any advice from guys who’ve made the solo rig transition would be huge. I work mostly residential with some small commercial jobs in the DFW area.
Great question! Having worked in cold climates (Minnesota and Wisconsin) for 12 years, here are my top tips:
1. Substrate Temperature: Never spray on surfaces below 40F. Use a temp gun to verify surface temp, not just air temp.
2. Drum Temperature: Keep A and B components at 70-80F. Electric drum heaters and a well-insulated trailer are essential.
3. Cold Weather Formulas: Ask your distributor about winter-grade products with adjusted reactivity.
4. Dew Point Check: Ensure substrate temp is at least 5 degrees above dew point to prevent adhesion failure.
5. Thinner Lifts: In very cold conditions, apply in passes no thicker than 1 inch to prevent thermal runaway.
Hope this helps!
Had a situation last week where I was getting soft, tacky foam mid-job. Eventually tracked it down to an ISO drum that was running low and had moisture contamination at the bottom.
Wanted to start a thread about field diagnostics for off-ratio foam since I see this come up a lot:
Signs your foam is off-ratio:
– Tacky/sticky surface = too much ISO or resin side issue
– Brittle, crumbly foam = too much resin (A-side rich)
– Off color (darker or lighter than normal) = ratio issue
– Unusual smell = contamination or ratio
– No cream time or immediate skinning = usually heat issue
Quick field tests:
1. Paper test strip – apply small bead, check tack at 30 seconds
2. Knife test – cut sample, check cell structure (should be uniform fine cells)
3. Measure mix ratio by weight per second from each side
Anyone have other field diagnostic tips they rely on?